Man, whole lot of collaborating Bombala lovers in here.
This trope is false; frogs will attempt to escape when the water gets unpleasantly hot. They don’t allow themselves to be boiled.
Just saying.
So, what course of action are you proposing? Vote Trump? Vote 3rd party? Don’t vote?
What’s your intended / expected outcome?
Voting 3rd party is a great idea. One that doesn’t support Genocide that is.
A normally blue voter voting 3rd party is indirectly helping Trump win the election. Do you think Trump’s Israel policy is going to be better than Harris’s?
Trump will be the same on israel. Are you going to reward the Democrats for 10 months of Genocide?
Well, I’m not a single-issue voter.
I’m not rewarding them for anything, but I accept that it’s possible to oppose one policy a politician has, even a very important one, and at the same time support a lot of other policies they have, while also vehemently opposing almost all policies that their opponent supports, and make my choice based on that information.
Based on this post, you seem to be a single-issue voter, though, so I’m trying to understand what you’re hoping the outcome is. You acknowledge that a vote that supports Trump, even indirectly, is not helping the people of Gaza, so why would you vote against your own self-interests? What’s your goal?
If your goal is to show opposition to what’s happening in Gaza, there’s much more effective ways to do that. Get out there and protest - the protests at the DNC are getting a lot of news coverage, that’s where your activism could actually make a difference. Not here.
Would you be a single-issue voter if you were the victim of Genocide?
The outcome is the Democrats stop committing Genocide or they don’t get votes. “But Trump” isn’t even an argument.
If I were the victim of genocide, I wouldn’t be a voter at all, because I’d be dead. However, that’s kind of irrelevant - are you the victim of genocide? I’m assuming not, if you’re voting in the US election. Even if you’re Palestinian, your people are the victim of genocide, but unless you’re in Palestine, you aren’t.
That said, if you are Palestinian, I feel for you, I honestly do, and it would explain your view somewhat.
I think we can both agree that there’s only two outcomes that’re possible in this election: Trump wins, or Harris wins. (If you don’t agree, I’d be happy to hear your third outcome.) If you truly believe there’s no difference between the two of them, you need to do some research on the topic, because there are a lot of differences, even if they don’t pertain to this issue specifically.
If, between the two of them, you hope Harris wins, a 3rd party vote is voting against your interests. If you hope Trump wins between the two of them, a 3rd party vote is still voting against your interests, because you’re effectively taking a vote away from your preferred candidate among the two who could possibly win.
Edit to respond to your edit:
The outcome is the Democrats stop committing Genocide or they don’t get votes. “But Trump” isn’t even an argument.
Unless you’re out there protesting, or writing letters, or making phone calls, or in some way letting them know that their policy is costing them your vote, it’s a useless gesture. Posting on Lemmy isn’t going to change any politician’s minds. It’s not even going to change anyone’s mind here, in all likelihood. If you actually want to make a difference, you need to make your voice heard by the people whose minds you’re actually trying to change.
Not every victim of Genocide is killed. Any person who was put in a concentration camp by Hitler, or even persecuted, was a victim of the Holocaust. Similarly any person in Gaza is the victim of a Genocide. And you don’t have to be a Palestinian to empathise with people.
Your scope of analysis is limited to 4 years. There’s no long term analysis. If people vote for Genocide it will cement that Democrats can get away with anything if they fearmonger hard enough.
When people threaten to withhold votes for a Genocide they have to follow through or all the leverage falls away. It’s a game of chicken now.
The guys is just a trump/maga shill who exploits the suffering in Gaza to attack the democratic party. That’s all he every posts about. Don’t waste your time.
I don’t think it’s a waste of time. Even if I can’t convince him specifically, there are other people reading these posts. If someone came to this thread who was less sure, and I can change their mind, that’s good enough for me.
Are you going to reward Trump for his decade of insane douchebaggery and criminal behavior? Why would we do that?
Never did I say vote for Trump you’re just putting words in my mouth now. But you’re saying you consider Trumps record of being a scamming piece of trash worse than literal Genocide?
You don’t seem to have read or followed any of the logic here. Why’s that?
Someone who would otherwise vote for Harris voting 3rd party would help Trump win. Pretty simple. Not sure what’s so hard to understand about that. And Trump would be just as bad on Gaza, worst likely, and worse on every other issue facing the country as well. Not sure how many times we have to say it.
No voting third party helps third party win.
Voting for Harris is helping Genocide win.
If a massive number of voters would vote third party that would be great. But based on every presidential election ever that’s just wishful thinking. The reality is a vote for a third party is one less vote for the best chance to defeat Trump.
The reality here is we aren’t going to win with a non genocide candidate. The best we can do is go with the masses and vote the least bad candidate in.
That’s complete nonsense. Trump is going to support Netanjahu going full fascist. The Democrats are going to offer at least some resistance. Not nearly enough obviously, but there is a clear difference nonetheless. A second Trump administration would be extremely damaging not just to the US but to the entire world. But that’s fine by you, isn’t it? People like you just want to see the world burn and all your ideas of how something better is somehow going to rise from the ashes are just bullshit.
You can’t defend a Genocide by pretending the Demcrats haven’t already gone full Fascist. All of Netanyahu’s commands have been obeyed to perfection.
Just say you want Trump to win, we can all tell.
Was there this much anger and many memes every election cycle when the US was in the middle east invading countries?
9/11 got a lot of liberals to shut up about murdering brown people but a Holocaust being livestreamed is hard to hide.
There are four options for American voters: vote red, vote blue, vote third party, or don’t vote at all.
Voting red is just bad. I highly doubt that the Gaza situation would get any better if Trump gets in, but I know for a fact that a lot of things will get much worse.
Voting third party is a wasted effort. Sure, every sane person would prefer different people to run America, but the the shit fptp system means they’ll never get any traction. In another election voting third party could be worth it, since a third party might slowly get more support, but not this one.
Not voting is just pointless. That’s just choosing to not impact anything.
That only leaves voting blue. It’s not great, but it’s the only option left.
but the the shit fptp system means they’ll never get any traction
When do we fix the electoral system?
In another election voting third party could be worth it
Which one? Every election since before my time has been the most important election ever…
I highly doubt that the Gaza situation would get any better if Trump gets in, but I know for a fact that a lot of things will get much worse.
What would Trump do that the Dems are not already doing? Trump would be a genocidal monster, yes, but we have DNC goers literally mocking Pro-Palestinian protestors and covering their ears:
There are four options for American voters: vote red, vote blue, vote third party, or don’t vote at all.
Nope, there are an infinite number of options. If a math question is “what number is greater than 10?” And the Dems said 4 and the Reps said 2, that doesn’t mean the Dems are correct. Voting will not save us, so we must move outside the realm of electoralism. Join an org, build up dual power, replace the DNC and GOP by force.
This all hangs on the false assumption in the third statement.
Soll explain to us how voting for any third party would change anything for the better.
They don’t support Genocide.
Explain how voting for Democrat would change anything for the better instead.
So preserving your imaginary moral superiority is your only goal. Right. Gotcha.
Maybe this is overly wishful thinking, but I do think there is enough data analysis on how people vote that it could be real: if a large body of people with a history of voting blue vote in this election and vote blue down the ballot but omit the president, or have a third party for the president instead, then that might actually send a message to the Democrats that they are fucking up their candidate selection badly, and make them at least marginally more likely to cater to the left when choosing candidates in the future.
That said I am not sure I can condone this tactic in good faith in this particular election given the alternative, but part of me feels like the right will perpetually have more and more abhorrent alternatives and there needs to be a line somewhere, and if it’s not at genocide then I honestly don’t know where it is.
No matter how you look at it all the options are bad. At least Tim being slightly left of Kamala shows Democrats slightly more willing to negotiate with disenfranchised left voters than chasing nebulous farther right independents. Not left enough to condemn genocide though so a very minor distinction
It’s weird how we can try to explain this to people for months straight and they’re still posting stupid memes about it.
It’s weird how you call your country a democracy but are forced to make choices you’re not at all comfortable with.
I call my country a flaming pile of shit sometimes, for what it’s worth
Because they have a LOT of money riding on convincing people not to vote blue. Gee, I wonder who benefits from that most.
Same people probably finding the temporary defacing of artworks.
wow! who could it be??
I don’t think they are stupid. They are coping with the hand we are dealt.
Wanting people to not vote for the only option that can beat Trump?
Wonder who that benefits… 🤔🤔🤔
Why is the democratic party the only option?
That is a valid question in isolation, but bringing it up in discussions on where to vote is not leading to discussions or actionable improvements. It only functions to push voter disenfrachisement.
Not saying it’s your intention, but it is your effect.
Voting least bad is important. Don’t discourage it.
Working for better voting options is also important. Do push for that too, but find a constructive setting for it.
💪
It’s the only realistic option at this point. You can still protest the genocide in Gaza AFTER the election (and I fully support you doing so, Hell I might even meet you at one), but look at it this way: if Kamala wins, you have a chance to make a change over there, but if Trump wins again, every Palestinian is as good as dead. Do I like either option? No! Do I think our elections are a good system? No! Am I going to vote for Kamala anyway? Yes! Because at this point, the choice is between shooting ourselves in the foot or in the temple
