with no ill will for you, OP, genuinely fuck this boomer ass “joke”
a woman’s name is her name. she lives with it for 1 lifetime, absolutely no shorter than her grandfather does. “male” is not somehow the default human identity. stop trying to enforce that standard.
I think the point of the joke might be more that an attempt to start a matrilineal naming scheme is foiled somewhat from the fact that the maiden name of the mother is derived from her father, i.e. you can’t escape that the last names all come from patrilineal sources for generations.
If a woman is committed to the idea, she could break the patrilineal naming convention simply by creating herself a new last name, and encouraging her children to take that name instead of their father’s.
yes, though I think a naming system like this isn’t an individual act as much as occurs on the level of social norms and rules; a single individual won’t introduce a competing matrilineal naming system just by convincing her children into it…
Either way, I somewhat agree with the criticism of the joke that the last name coming from a patrilineal origin isn’t a gotcha, though maybe that’s actually the point of the meme since Homelander is the one posing it as a gotcha (and he’s a villain, so it would make sense to symbolize a misogynist with him). The name would still be inherited in a matrilineal way even if it started as a patrilineal name further up the chain.
I guess there is a question of whether the name’s origin matters at all when we are concerned with the patriarchial nature of a practice where women lose their family names and men don’t. That practice being disrupted is what matters, not what the actual name is.
This is true, but who decided that a woman keeping her maiden name is just using her father’s name? That idea comes from patriarchy. If I inherit something at birth, like a rare coin, it’s mine, whether it came from my mom or dad. The same goes for a woman’s name—it’s hers because she’s had it since birth. Suggesting she doesn’t own it, and must create a new name to escape, reinforces the idea that only patrilineal identity matters and undermines her autonomy in making that choice.
The important part is that it is her choice to do so or not. My suggestion is just one possible solution that could be used by those who choose to do so. I’m not pretending that it’s the only solution, nor am I pretending that it’s even the best solution.
…yeah? exactly what i said? i don’t disagree at all except you possibly ignore that the butt of the joke is the woman, normalizing the very repression she attempts to subvert. it’s undermining and mocking the woman’s identity intentionally by asserting the dominance of patriarchal schemes over her own life and decision. (perhaps unintentionally, but nevertheless really.)
in America, historically Black names are also dominated by the history of slavery and white supremacy (different functions, but the end result: subjugation, is parallel). i would post a similar comment hating on a post mocking Black folk for resisting these patterns as well! :)
… just pass on the mother’s name to your children? Eventually it matters as much as that your ancestor was a smith. (and that’s besides the “not everyone wants to lose their name on marrying” point)
in my friend group we have a guy we describe as “default {name}”, in order to differentiate him from the other {name}s in the group. He’s a cisgender heterosexual white christian male (a rarity among us). Mostly it’s a joke, because we all agree that being mildly offensive is kinda funny, but it’s also a commentary on society at large. If you’re online talking to people you know nothing about, it’s a safe assumption (christian less and less as the years go by though).
It is absolutely ok to not be “default settings”. You’re not doing anything wrong by not confirming to that standard. I didn’t decide what default is, I learned it by observing society.
appreciate your insight! i fully agree with everything except perhaps:
You’re not doing anything wrong by not confirming to that standard.
still a correct statement on its own, but needs the clarification that it’s not chill to mock or hamper the efforts of that “Othered” community to subvert or reclaim their repression. while it’s certainly not wrong for a woman to conform to the patrilineal system, it’s not chill to “gotcha”-laugh at this woman for using the same name she and her mother have owned their whole lives.
it’s a very Rush Limbaugh-esque “you claim to he a feminist, yet you live under the forces and histories of the patriarchy, curious 🧐” joke, in that it’s not wrong, it’s just intensely and obviously comes from a place of ignorant disrespect.
with no ill will for you, OP, genuinely fuck this boomer ass “joke”
a woman’s name is her name. she lives with it for 1 lifetime, absolutely no shorter than her grandfather does. “male” is not somehow the default human identity. stop trying to enforce that standard.
I think the point of the joke might be more that an attempt to start a matrilineal naming scheme is foiled somewhat from the fact that the maiden name of the mother is derived from her father, i.e. you can’t escape that the last names all come from patrilineal sources for generations.
If a woman is committed to the idea, she could break the patrilineal naming convention simply by creating herself a new last name, and encouraging her children to take that name instead of their father’s.
yes, though I think a naming system like this isn’t an individual act as much as occurs on the level of social norms and rules; a single individual won’t introduce a competing matrilineal naming system just by convincing her children into it…
Either way, I somewhat agree with the criticism of the joke that the last name coming from a patrilineal origin isn’t a gotcha, though maybe that’s actually the point of the meme since Homelander is the one posing it as a gotcha (and he’s a villain, so it would make sense to symbolize a misogynist with him). The name would still be inherited in a matrilineal way even if it started as a patrilineal name further up the chain.
I guess there is a question of whether the name’s origin matters at all when we are concerned with the patriarchial nature of a practice where women lose their family names and men don’t. That practice being disrupted is what matters, not what the actual name is.
This is true, but who decided that a woman keeping her maiden name is just using her father’s name? That idea comes from patriarchy. If I inherit something at birth, like a rare coin, it’s mine, whether it came from my mom or dad. The same goes for a woman’s name—it’s hers because she’s had it since birth. Suggesting she doesn’t own it, and must create a new name to escape, reinforces the idea that only patrilineal identity matters and undermines her autonomy in making that choice.
The important part is that it is her choice to do so or not. My suggestion is just one possible solution that could be used by those who choose to do so. I’m not pretending that it’s the only solution, nor am I pretending that it’s even the best solution.
love it :)
…yeah? exactly what i said? i don’t disagree at all except you possibly ignore that the butt of the joke is the woman, normalizing the very repression she attempts to subvert. it’s undermining and mocking the woman’s identity intentionally by asserting the dominance of patriarchal schemes over her own life and decision. (perhaps unintentionally, but nevertheless really.)
in America, historically Black names are also dominated by the history of slavery and white supremacy (different functions, but the end result: subjugation, is parallel). i would post a similar comment hating on a post mocking Black folk for resisting these patterns as well! :)
… just pass on the mother’s name to your children? Eventually it matters as much as that your ancestor was a smith. (and that’s besides the “not everyone wants to lose their name on marrying” point)
Love the little respectful preamble you put there, can we make that internet discussion standard plz.?
i support!
in my friend group we have a guy we describe as “default {name}”, in order to differentiate him from the other {name}s in the group. He’s a cisgender heterosexual white christian male (a rarity among us). Mostly it’s a joke, because we all agree that being mildly offensive is kinda funny, but it’s also a commentary on society at large. If you’re online talking to people you know nothing about, it’s a safe assumption (christian less and less as the years go by though).
It is absolutely ok to not be “default settings”. You’re not doing anything wrong by not confirming to that standard. I didn’t decide what default is, I learned it by observing society.
appreciate your insight! i fully agree with everything except perhaps:
still a correct statement on its own, but needs the clarification that it’s not chill to mock or hamper the efforts of that “Othered” community to subvert or reclaim their repression. while it’s certainly not wrong for a woman to conform to the patrilineal system, it’s not chill to “gotcha”-laugh at this woman for using the same name she and her mother have owned their whole lives.
it’s a very Rush Limbaugh-esque “you claim to he a feminist, yet you live under the forces and histories of the patriarchy, curious 🧐” joke, in that it’s not wrong, it’s just intensely and obviously comes from a place of ignorant disrespect.
Removed by mod