Okay but like, in regular penis-in-vagina sex, the man is (theoretically) giving pleasure to the woman while also doing all the work. Is that still power play? Is pussyfucker the same as cocksucker?
Exactly, pussyfucker isn’t an insult because traditionally there was nothing wrong with fucking pussy, but calling someone a cocksucker is implying they’re either gay or a woman
that’s also a fundamentally flawed argument though. Unless you’re like actively raping someone, there’s nothing inherently wrong with fucking a woman. That’s why the implication of cocksucker and motherfucker matter, obviously someone fucks everyones mother, but it’s the implication that people who are “motherfuckers” would fuck your mother just to be a problem.
Being submissive in sex can be expressed in a blowjob, but so can being dominant. Most sexual acts can be either dominant or submissive under the right context. For example a person can forcibly (consensually) throw the other person down, pin them to the floor and start going down on them while not letting them orgasm. Is the person being overpowered and forced to be frustrate by not orgasming the one in power?
Your understanding of mutual respect and love is unhealthy if you compare going down on someone to bootlicking.
I think you are missing the point, which is that “cocksucker” should not be used as an insult because it’s homophobic. Even if you personally identify it as a power dynamic insult, it does not change the fact that it is rooted in homophobia and that the OOP most likely used it without any thought as to its meaning and history but rather it just came to him as a viable insult (internalized homophobia)
or maybe i’m just gay and i think cocksucker is a funny insult, but no i must be homophobic, clearly that’s the only option.
This shits just not that complicated bro, it’s language, doesn’t matter where an insult came from if it’s use is broadly different in modern lexicon. Some fascinating psychoanalysis of random people on the internet.
If you are white, go call a black person a removed in a friendly way (like black people do to eachother sometimes) and see how well that goes. History matters, the origin of a word matters. Sure, maybe in a 100 years the meaning will change, but currently it is still widely recognized as a homophobic slur.
And even if you were gay, that does not make you immune to internelized homophobia. Just like there are plenty of black people who disagree with the usage of the word removed even if spoken by a black person, because it is still rooted in racism.
Yeah but the proportion of intensity also matters. The n word literally dates back to slavery. It makes sense that it would be a pretty offensive racial line to cross. Although i don’t think it’s fully strict, i think it’s just mostly strict, you can find examples outside of it.
There’s also the question of a slur being situationally relevant. For example, you could write out the n word in long form, specifically for the act of describing it, in a dictionary for instance. You would struggle to argue that it’s a necessarily “racist” usage of the word.
For the same reason i would argue that “cocksucker” isn’t necessarily a slur against gay people, for example, if you don’t use it for the purposes of specifically slurring a gay person. Which also brings into question whether or not it is even a slur in the first place.
Of course there are also words like faggot for example, which are more directly linked to gay people, and being a slur specifically in that regard, it doesn’t have much use outside of that. But even then people do still use it, primarily gay people. Some of us just think it’s a funny word. (you can call me a faggot all you want i don’t care, i just think you look silly lmao) though i would still explicitly denote the slurred usage of faggot.
And even if you were gay, that does not make you immune to internelized homophobia.
and this would be pretty fundamentally “schizo” like we’re talking freudian psychology levels of psycho analysis and diagnosing here. There are certainly select cases where that could theoretically be possible, but i don’t see that being worth more than interesting psychological banter. I mean realistically, it’s meaningless in 99% of cases. There’s going to be another more aggressive tell.
Just like there are plenty of black people who disagree with the usage of the word removed even if spoken by a black person, because it is still rooted in racism.
and you can be against the usage of it, for sure, but i think you’ll have a hard time finding black people who police what other black people say. Just as you will in this case.
I think we need to agree to disagree because I feel like we both said what we had to say. I still think you are missing the point and you still think I’m over analyzing.
i never thought of it as a homophobic insult because plenty of straight bi etc also suck cocks, if ive ever heard cocksucker in a homophobic context ive always heard a certain slur right after it
to me, cocksucker reminds me of a prison dynamic, where its more about the power of making someone suck your cock vs them being just gay for sucking cock
but at the end of the day it dont matter we’re all just arguing about an insult homophobic or not i dont think its a good use of our time to continue to argue about its semantics
So, if you were to replace ‘cocksucker’ with ‘towelhead’, slut, Yid, or Nig*** would that still just be a power thing?
Not that it actually makes a difference. This ‘power thing’ you refer to is controlling abuse for self interest. Introducing a predudice is just a way of trying to justify and/or hide the abuse.
No, the discussion was not about whether different words were of equal or differing offensiveness. My discussion is about what saying ‘it’s a power thing’ actually means and how it relates to abusive behaviour.
its still at the end of the day giving pleasure to another. giving the key word: power thing. its the same atmosphere as bootlicker
If you think going down on someone is only a submissive act you haven’t gone down on someone long enough, or teased them enough.
thats not what i think im explaining the insult
Okay but like, in regular penis-in-vagina sex, the man is (theoretically) giving pleasure to the woman while also doing all the work. Is that still power play? Is pussyfucker the same as cocksucker?
i mean yeah, pussyfucker if you used as an insult would be quite a weird insult to throw, but it would work i suppose.
Motherfucker is also in the same vein like the other commenter suggested.
pussyfucker isnt an insult ive ever heard but motherfucker is
cocksucker reminds me of the prison mentality of making someone your bitch so thats where im getting the power play from
Exactly, pussyfucker isn’t an insult because traditionally there was nothing wrong with fucking pussy, but calling someone a cocksucker is implying they’re either gay or a woman
that’s also a fundamentally flawed argument though. Unless you’re like actively raping someone, there’s nothing inherently wrong with fucking a woman. That’s why the implication of cocksucker and motherfucker matter, obviously someone fucks everyones mother, but it’s the implication that people who are “motherfuckers” would fuck your mother just to be a problem.
Yet it isn’t an insult for some reason, I wonder why?
motherfucker is literally an insult, but ok.
why arent you explaining motherfucker then?
and funny how your mind goes straight to homophobia or misogyny, when there are other interpretations for cocksucker
oedipal
oh you’re trolling, good day
maybe check what sub youre in next time
You’re not just pretending to be retarded.
why are you calling me slurs? what did i do to deserve this?
Being submissive in sex can be expressed in a blowjob, but so can being dominant. Most sexual acts can be either dominant or submissive under the right context. For example a person can forcibly (consensually) throw the other person down, pin them to the floor and start going down on them while not letting them orgasm. Is the person being overpowered and forced to be frustrate by not orgasming the one in power?
Your understanding of mutual respect and love is unhealthy if you compare going down on someone to bootlicking.
im comparing an insult to bootlicking. jesus christ you people really feel like arguing over absolutely nothing
I think you are missing the point, which is that “cocksucker” should not be used as an insult because it’s homophobic. Even if you personally identify it as a power dynamic insult, it does not change the fact that it is rooted in homophobia and that the OOP most likely used it without any thought as to its meaning and history but rather it just came to him as a viable insult (internalized homophobia)
or maybe i’m just gay and i think cocksucker is a funny insult, but no i must be homophobic, clearly that’s the only option.
This shits just not that complicated bro, it’s language, doesn’t matter where an insult came from if it’s use is broadly different in modern lexicon. Some fascinating psychoanalysis of random people on the internet.
If you are white, go call a black person a removed in a friendly way (like black people do to eachother sometimes) and see how well that goes. History matters, the origin of a word matters. Sure, maybe in a 100 years the meaning will change, but currently it is still widely recognized as a homophobic slur.
And even if you were gay, that does not make you immune to internelized homophobia. Just like there are plenty of black people who disagree with the usage of the word removed even if spoken by a black person, because it is still rooted in racism.
Yeah but the proportion of intensity also matters. The n word literally dates back to slavery. It makes sense that it would be a pretty offensive racial line to cross. Although i don’t think it’s fully strict, i think it’s just mostly strict, you can find examples outside of it.
There’s also the question of a slur being situationally relevant. For example, you could write out the n word in long form, specifically for the act of describing it, in a dictionary for instance. You would struggle to argue that it’s a necessarily “racist” usage of the word.
For the same reason i would argue that “cocksucker” isn’t necessarily a slur against gay people, for example, if you don’t use it for the purposes of specifically slurring a gay person. Which also brings into question whether or not it is even a slur in the first place.
Of course there are also words like faggot for example, which are more directly linked to gay people, and being a slur specifically in that regard, it doesn’t have much use outside of that. But even then people do still use it, primarily gay people. Some of us just think it’s a funny word. (you can call me a faggot all you want i don’t care, i just think you look silly lmao) though i would still explicitly denote the slurred usage of faggot.
and this would be pretty fundamentally “schizo” like we’re talking freudian psychology levels of psycho analysis and diagnosing here. There are certainly select cases where that could theoretically be possible, but i don’t see that being worth more than interesting psychological banter. I mean realistically, it’s meaningless in 99% of cases. There’s going to be another more aggressive tell.
and you can be against the usage of it, for sure, but i think you’ll have a hard time finding black people who police what other black people say. Just as you will in this case.
I think we need to agree to disagree because I feel like we both said what we had to say. I still think you are missing the point and you still think I’m over analyzing.
i never thought of it as a homophobic insult because plenty of straight bi etc also suck cocks, if ive ever heard cocksucker in a homophobic context ive always heard a certain slur right after it
to me, cocksucker reminds me of a prison dynamic, where its more about the power of making someone suck your cock vs them being just gay for sucking cock
but at the end of the day it dont matter we’re all just arguing about an insult homophobic or not i dont think its a good use of our time to continue to argue about its semantics
So, if you were to replace ‘cocksucker’ with ‘towelhead’, slut, Yid, or Nig*** would that still just be a power thing?
Not that it actually makes a difference. This ‘power thing’ you refer to is controlling abuse for self interest. Introducing a predudice is just a way of trying to justify and/or hide the abuse.
im sorry are we equating cocksucker, and the n word to be on the same level of offensive slur?
No, the discussion was not about whether different words were of equal or differing offensiveness. My discussion is about what saying ‘it’s a power thing’ actually means and how it relates to abusive behaviour.
i suppose that’s fair. But it’s also an insult. They’re not meant to be nice.
Exactly! Which was my original point that this ‘power thing’ is about using/tied to abusive/instluting behaviour rather than something separate.